Robert Craven Jr. is running for House District 32
Steve Ahlquist: I don’t want to start on a
negative note, but in this state, we oftentimes have what I think of as
“inherited” seats. That is, the child of a politician taking over an elected
position from their parent. Your father is the current State Representative
from District 32, so what do you bring to this position that makes it earned
rather than inherited?
Robert Craven: Two things. One, I’m running not
because I have his name; I’m running despite having his name. I’m running in
North Kingstown because it’s where I grew up and where I know the state and the
country best. I’m running because I have the specific experience to deliver
meaningful results for North Kingstown. My father represented well. He had his
own experience to rely on. I have some of the same skills, but a different
skill set and perspective on much of it, which will let me either expand on or
add to what he accomplished.
Steve Ahlquist: You do have an impressive resume. Do
you want to talk about that?
Robert Craven: I’m glad to. For the past three
years, I’ve been the policy director for Rhode Island’s Treasurer. In that
capacity, I’ve helped champion legislation that expanded wealth opportunities
for low-income Rhode Islanders, helped towns like North Kingstown protect
themselves from the threats of climate change, helped survivors of sexual
assault access the funds and support systems they need, and pushed Rhode Island
forward in financial well-being. Before that, I ran the Treasurer’s campaign,
as you know...
Steve Ahlquist: Which is when I got to know you
a little bit.
Robert Craven: Exactly. And before I got into
the politics and policy side of things, I practiced law for a few years at a
litigation firm in Downtown Providence, where I practiced banking law, complex
commercial disputes, and class action lawsuits.
Steve Ahlquist: That put you in the position to
be in the Treasurer’s office
Robert Craven: Yeah. It was a good foundation
for understanding the issues the office usually deals with. And I dealt with a
lot of land use and Coastal Resources Management Council (CRMC)
law when I was practicing law, which gave me the CRMC’s perspective on things
and where some of these communities and their zoning boards are in terms of
being able to construct (or not construct) what they’re comfortable with, and
what’s environmentally sound.
Steve Ahlquist: Land use and the CRMC are two
hot topics at the State House right now. We’re dealing with land use issues and
possibly reorganizing the CRMC or folding it into the Department of
Environmental Management (DEM).
Robert Craven: I think CRMC needs a revisit.
That organization has served the state well enough since its creation, but the
policies surrounding it are changing. The needs of the state have shifted, and
there’s going to be a lot more urgency in what they do as we head towards an
era where we might see a dramatic change in what’s happening on our shoreline.
Steve Ahlquist: I think we’re already seeing dramatic
changes. We’re looking at parts of Newport going underwater...
Robert Craven: ... and Warren, North Kingstown,
Westerly...
Steve Ahlquist: Yeah. Whole sections of the state -
land, houses, businesses, whatever - are going to be flooded if we can’t figure
out something.
Growing up in a political household, what was that like?
Mine is a firefighter family, so we were somewhat political, union politics...
Robert Craven: My mom was a union president in
Narragansett. I grew up hearing about the Department of Education and
how it was not funding teachers. When I was in middle school, I remember
hearing about pension reform from my mom, who was one of the people affected by
it. Growing up in that kind of household with a father always interested in
policy and politics shows you that the system is accessible, right? I went
to George Washington University down in DC, but I came back to
intern in health and housing policy for Governor Lincoln Chafee.
That experience, along with what I had growing up, showed me
how accessible the system can be. And then, if you learn how the system works,
you can really accomplish something through it. There’s this impression that
politicians are inaccessible or that they’re in it for malicious intent, but
that’s not the case. You have a lot of good people out there who are trying to
accomplish something - trying to do the right thing. That’s kind of the lesson
that I learned growing up around it.
Steve Ahlquist: I think that’s true. We have a very accessible government here. It’s like a half-mile walk between Providence City Hall and the Rhode Island State House. You can meet all your politicians in both places.
Robert Craven: I’ve gone to some conferences for
the Treasurer’s office, and when I talk to people from other states, they’re
surprised to learn how often the public is engaged in these conversations at
our State House and how often all of our state leaders are in one place. That’s
unique to Rhode Island, and that means there’s more communication. People get
to build relationships with elected leaders and learn where their minds are on
stuff.
Steve Ahlquist: I think about that. In a city like
New York, if you want to deal with state politics, you’ve got to drive an hour
or so north to Albany. In California, it’s even more ridiculous.
Robert Craven: You have to jump on a plane.
Steve Ahlquist: Exactly. You can’t just drive.
Robert Craven: We see everybody in our House and
Senate all the time.
Steve Ahlquist: I love the compactness and the
accessibility of Rhode Island.
We talked a little bit about climate and housing. What other
issues are motivating you?
Robert Craven: The most pressing issue facing
not just North Kingstown but also the state is that incomes haven’t risen
enough to keep pace with the economy. Right now, incomes aren’t at a place
where you can buy your way into the middle class.
Steve Ahlquist: Not even close.
Robert Craven: That affects housing. The promise
of home ownership has always been part of the American dream, and this
generation of Americans faces the reality that they might not be able to
achieve it. They might not be able to afford their kids’ education because of
the high cost.
There are many facets to this, but the core of the problem
is financial well-being and income.
Steve Ahlquist: How do we solve for that?
Robert Craven: There’s no one solution. It’s
taking steps towards progress in housing. We have to focus on building lower-,
middle-income, and working-class housing. People often associate the term
“low-income housing” with a particular person. They conjure up a particular
idea, but really, our teachers, firefighters, and first responders are being
pushed out of the opportunity to own a home. A raised ranch in North Kingstown
is like $750,000, and within my lifetime, that was once a $300,000 house. The
solution is to increase housing stock at both levels and be intentional about
how we’re helping people cut costs.
In terms of healthcare, that’s a real burden on people right
now. People worry about how they’ll afford healthcare. It means being
intentional about how people are saving for retirement, and it comes in the
form of income growth, too, expanding opportunity...
Steve Ahlquist: I have to say that when it comes to
investing in or planning for retirement, I don’t know many young people who are
doing either. They are living hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck. I’ve got
three kids. One owns a home, the other two are still paying down their student
debt.
Robert Craven: That’s exactly what you’re seeing
right now, where 40, 50 years ago, you had people who had the financial ability
to plan for the future. But right now, you have people graduating from college
with insurmountable debt, trying to figure out how to pay rent and looking at
the prices of groceries or gas to get to work. The costs of today are so
present that they can’t think about tomorrow. They have to think day by day.
That’s the unfortunate reality we’re in and something we have to look at;
otherwise, 50 years down the road, we’re going to have a lot of people looking
to retire who either find they can’t, have to work into old age, or not be able
to afford day-to-day expenses.
Steve Ahlquist: We’re seeing the second part of that
already: People unable to afford rent, people working well into retirement or
more. My dad bought his first house in Warwick as a firefighter for around
$20k. Itwas possible to do then.
Robert Craven: When my grandfather was a
Providence firefighter, his wife didn’t work while they raised their seven
kids. Seven kids supported on a firefighter’s salary. That is simply impossible
today.
Steve Ahlquist: Today, both parents need to be
working.
Robert Craven: And there’s this idea that you
can work your way through college, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, but
outside of opportunities that the state has created for CCRI and for Rhode
Island College, it’s nearly impossible to work your way through a four-year
institution.
Steve Ahlquist: I may be from the last generation of
people who were able to go to school basically on Pell Grants.
Robert Craven: And Pell Grants are shrinking.
They’re under attack.
Steve Ahlquist: I know. I have older cousins who
worked in ice cream stores during the summer to pay for their college
education.
Can I ask how old you are, by the way?
Robert Craven: 31…
Steve Ahlquist: I thought so, because of the Chaffee
internship...
Robert Craven: I interned for Democrat Chaffee.
Steve Ahlquist: We’ve talked about the cost of
living, health care, housing...
Robert Craven: We talked about the environment a
little bit. North Kingstown is one of those communities that will be
particularly affected as climate change intensifies. We’re a waterfront
community. Climate change means the erosion of our coastline and beaches. We
also have in Quonsett and in the fishing industry. A lot of people and
businesses depend on the blue economy, right? So, as the water warms and
fishermen have to go further out, or they’re simply not finding the same
shellfish or fish that were once there, you’re going to see big economic
impacts on people.
Quonsett is a major employer in our state. 6% of the state’s
jobs are in Quonsett, and this past week, that increased by another 8,000 jobs.
But we’re going to see those industries start to shift in how they address some
of this. Even for communities and parts of the town that aren’t along that
waterfront, you’re going to see impacts, like an increase in the cost of
insurance, and that’s money out of people’s pockets.
Steve Ahlquist: And home insurance is mandatory -
unavoidable if you want to keep your house, you have to keep your insurance.
Robert Craven: We just saw a particularly harsh
winter, and that’s symptomatic of global climate change. The cost of cleanup
was in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars in many of these
communities. That comes from the taxpayer budget, right? It means fewer
resources you can allocate to education and infrastructure, and fewer people
you can support through other programs. So people who don’t think they’re
affected because they don’t have waterfront property aren’t seeing the whole
picture.
Steve Ahlquist: None of these problems stops at the
border of any particular municipality, right? We are all in this together,
whether we see it or not. For instance, every person experiencing homelessness
is a cost to all of us that could be mitigated...
Robert Craven: And there’s a social cost as
well. We don’t want people to lack access to homes. We want to expand shelters
and spaces, but also boost people up rather than just say, “Here’s a spot to
go.”
Steve Ahlquist: There’s also a moral cost, too. It
hardens our hearts when you see homelessness every day, and you start to think,
“This is the world,” and you just let it happen.
Robert Craven: It becomes expected versus
something that should trigger a response.
Steve Ahlquist: Electric Boat is
hiring a giant number of people...
Robert Craven: They are, and those are great
working-class jobs for the state. Electric Boat has brought in a lot of
opportunities for people, and that’s a real asset to the state.
Steve Ahlquist: The downside, to my mind, though, is
that it’s the military economy. Imagine if we had 30,000 people building more
housing? It seems there are better ways to generate those jobs than by adding
more submarines.
Robert Craven: The cash injection through the
housing bond that passed two years ago and the one that is proposed in the
budget now, which I expect to pass and be on the ballot in November, both of
those will provide more opportunity for job creation and growth, not just in
the construction industry and the trades. That’s a good start. $120 million is
a decent-sized bond, but we still need more.
And it’s going to take years. There’s been a lot of
frustration with the pace of this. We didn’t pay attention to housing for so
long...
Steve Ahlquist: It’s like our bridges. We ignored our
bridges, and then suddenly there’s a price.
Robert Craven: And now we’re seeing it. And a
little more preparedness on the state side could help us mitigate these
problems before they become crises. And healthcare is the worst one.
Steve Ahlquist: Part of that is that our General
Assembly, because it is limited in funds, is always borrowing from the future.
By not investing in housing now, I can spend the money on other things, but at
some point, that bill comes due. We’re screwed by the Speakers, Senate
Presidents, and Governors of 10, 20, and 30 years ago.
Robert Craven: Speaker Shakashi’s been very
intentional about his approach to housing specifically.
Steve Ahlquist: He has.
He’s taken a long-term view of this problem versus looking
for an expedited short-term fix. That’s what the legislature should start doing
on a lot of these issues, because an expedient solution might relieve the
problem a little bit, but it creates higher costs and problems tomorrow. Having
people in the State House who are forward-looking and understand today’s
pressures, but also recognize that these problems are part of a broader issue,
will help us develop a more sustainable policy path.
I get that, but on the other side, people are suffering
right now, and long-term solutions don’t help a person experiencing
homelessness or paying $2,000 a month in rent they can’t afford. That’s a new
issue, and it also affects my own future. That’s also destroying a person’s
potential and robbing their children of a future. There has to be a two-pronged
attack here. Think climate change, for instance. We want to solve the issues of
climate change, energy scarcity, and all that stuff, but we also have to mitigate
the effects of climate change happening now, right? We’re spending money to
build wind turbines. We also have to spend money to fortify houses against
flooding or to move entire communities further up a hill or something.
Robert Craven: Stormwater abatement, and all of
that.
Steve Ahlquist: All that, yes.
Robert Craven: That’s right. It’s a very careful
balance. The governor always says that budgets are priorities, and there’s a
lot of truth in that. Budgets show what we’re paying attention to as a state.
There’s so much need today that to turn a blind eye to that would be negligent.
Steve Ahlquist: Other issues are coming down the road
that we’re not paying attention to now. One is the trash, because the state
landfill is filling up. We’re 10 or 15 years away, maybe less, from having to
deal with that. What do we do with our garbage? Put it on a train and ship it
to New Jersey>? And that becomes a cost. And nobody is going to want a
garbage transfer station in their community.
Robert Craven: They’re going to look to the port
towns, though, like the Port of Providence.
Steve Ahlquist: The people there do not deserve that.
I can tell you right now. No way that’s happening without a fight.
Robert Craven: Not to mention the environmental
cost of shipping away trash. There’s always going to be accidents.
Steve Ahlquist: And diesel. Those boats are not
powered by solar. They’re powered by fossil fuels.
Robert Craven: And when you go out for a nice
boat ride on Narragansett Bay, all of a sudden, you get the trash
barge.
Steve Ahlquist: When you talk to voters, what are you
hearing?
Robert Craven: I keep hearing about education
and the funding formula. There’s a consensus that our funding formula needs
work...
Steve Ahlquist: Though my understanding is that North
Kingston does pretty well in the funding formula world.
Robert Craven: It does. And the town has
invested heavily in its school system, and I think you’ve seen the positive
impact on educational outcomes. I went to North Kingstown High School, and it
afforded me every opportunity I would have wanted.
Steve Ahlquist: It’s a beautiful high school, and the
kids I see there seem engaged...
Robert Craven: I went to something that the
school hosts called Democracy Night. It’s a civics project where
students present on an issue that matters to them. Many students presented
on Career and Technical Education (CTE). There’s a lot
more access to CTE in North Kingstown than there was when I was there. That’s a
place where the state can grow by providing further opportunities in some of
these trades.
The average plumber today is in their 50s. We don’t have
people doing drywall. We don’t have people painting. These were always seen as
honorable careers, but for some reason, we shifted our perspective on them. But
a fully licensed plumber makes a six-figure salary in our state, and at the end
of the day, that’s a great job and a lucrative career.
North Kingstown’s investment in schools also brings many
people to town. And that, from a purely financial perspective, expands the tax
base. It expands the town’s pull factor for people coming into town. You’re
seeing a lot of families in their 40s coming in with young kids, seeking that
education, which is a great boost to the town.
The funding formula struggles with transportation. It’s part
of the formula where the funding follows the student. That leaves a hole
unplugged in a school budget. Maybe you have a 25-kid class, and three go to
another school, whether it’s a charter school, a private institution, or a
trade school. You still have 22 kids in a class, teachers to pay, and
utilities. You can’t shrink that classroom...
Steve Ahlquist: But you’ve lost- the $75,000 or
whatever. That is a challenge. So you’re thinking about decoupling the money
from the student...
Robert Craven: The Blue
Ribbon Commission report that the Rhode Island Foundation led
is a great place to start this conversation on how it can work for communities
as diverse as North Kingstown, Central Falls, and Burrillville, because those
districts have unique needs, and finding something that works for all of them,
that’s affordable from the state and municipal perspective would go a long way
towards boosting education generally.
Steve Ahlquist: Charter school proponents might
not love tdecoupling that money because their funding depends, in part, on the
money following the student into their school...
Robert Craven: They might not, but when we
started having conversations as a state about charter schools, we were talking
about filling a specific educational need that wasn’t being met in public
education, such as the Trinity Academy for the Performing Arts (TAPA)
here in Downtown Providence. That’s what charter schools were meant to be: not
a parallel track to public education, but something specialized, where, if you
had a student who wanted to go into areas the public education couldn’t supply
the resources for, say, the performing arts. Then it makes sense, but what
we’re doing is creating a parallel school system, which diverts funding from
public education. That’s going to create a duality between haves and have-nots
across school departments and systems.
Steve Ahlquist: My impression is that charter schools
were an anti-union effort; an attempt to break the teachers’ unions. But now
we’re seeing a big unionization effort in charter schools, which is fantastic.
But that also gets back to your point about a parallel track. Now there are
even fewer differences between the two school systems, and there’s less of a
financial incentive, I guess, to think about charter schools, if teachers are
going to unionize anyway.
Robert Craven: As a state, we should continue to
invest in quality public education and support the rights of those who work in
those institutions.
Steve Ahlquist: Is that something you got from your
mom in her union work?
Robert Craven: I’m a member as well. I taught
for four or five years at the Community College of Rhode Island as an adjunct
faculty member. I’m part of the National Education Association (NEA).
Steve Ahlquist: That’s awesome. Good for you.
Robert Craven: But it is probably part of my
upbringing, too. A collective voice, obviously, has much more power than the
individual. That’s really what unions provide: an avenue for the collective to
express its opinion and not be pushed to the margins of the conversation.
Steve Ahlquist: If elected, what committees would you
like to be on?
Robert Craven: I think my experience lends
itself to the Judiciary and Finance committee. But I also have a lot of
interest in Municipal Government and Housing. We’ve talked a lot about housing,
and that’s the committee that is at the front line of that conversation. And
the State Elections and Government committee, because you’re seeing that
committee become a lot more active, by necessity, because of what’s going on
nationally. The chair, Evan Shanley, has done a good job pushing
these conversations in a way that protects Rhode Islander’s access to the
ballot, despite what’s happening elsewhere in the country.
Steve Ahlquist: I wanted to ask about that. Given all
the extra challenges posed by the Trump Administration, including
reduced funding for SNAP, healthcare, and more, our budget is under
significant pressure. We’re talking about a one-percent or millionaire’s tax to
try to make up for some of the money that’s going to be lost. Do you have any
thoughts about this? I guess I don’t really have a question.
Robert Craven: Well, this is a hard budget cycle
right now. Next year, we’re heading for a harder budget cycle. We’re not going
to feel the impact of a lot of these federal changes, benefit cuts, and funding
cuts until next year. They’ve passed, but the fiscal year hasn’t had time to
react yet. So we’re going to really have to face this as a state next year and
every year following, unless there’s a dramatic change at the federal level
that brings all these resources back, and even then, we’re going to have a lag
from lack of funding for a period of time.
So it’s the state’s responsibility to make sure it maintains
those critical lifelines. We need to make sure that families can be fed and
that people continue to have access to meaningful healthcare. Not just because
it’s the right thing to do, but also because if people aren’t being fed,
becoming homeless, and experiencing dangerous health situations, that puts a
strain on our healthcare system that’s already bursting at the seams.
We have less money going into healthcare. We’ve diverted one
hospital closure, but that doesn’t mean we’re out of the wilderness.
Steve Ahlquist: The attorney general said we might be
dealing with this again in three months or a year.
Robert Craven: I hope not.
Steve Ahlquist: Me too.
Robert Craven: But it’s something that we should
be prepared for regardless. I don’t think we want this undue dependence on what
we have right now.
How do we pay for all of this? I believe in progressive
taxation. It makes sense as a public policy. I hear a lot of conversation, both
in the State House and elsewhere, that our budget is bloated. Ensuring that
we’re responsibly spending is a pillar of government, as is ensuring that we’re
not wasting taxpayer money and betraying taxpayer trust. But the fact that the
budget has grown doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re being irresponsible. We’re
putting money into projects that are necessary and meaningful, and if we end up
using state money to plug some of these federal budget holes, that’s not
irresponsible.
It’s right and responsible because these expenditures have a
trickle-down effect across the rest of the government. It’s naive to think that
if we ignore these issues, they won’t weigh on the state.
Steve Ahlquist: Isn’t the point of government and the
budget to serve the people?
Robert Craven: Absolutely.
Steve Ahlquist: And if we’re not feeding and housing
people ... I mean, that’s baseline.
Robert Craven: Food and shelter are the core
needs everyone has.
Steve Ahlquist: If we can’t provide that, I don’t
know what we’re doing as a society.
Robert Craven: It’s an obligation. I don’t think
anyone is saying, “I expect not to work and get everything for free.” If you
spoke to people in these lower-income brackets, they want to be able to work.
They want to be honorable citizens, but there’s so much pulling on them. These
are the people working two or three jobs to sustain themselves.
Steve Ahlquist: I know.
Robert Craven: And I don’t know what’s harder
work than that.
Steve Ahlquist: They work harder than and deal with
more stress than anyone else. Imagine the stress of knowing one medical
emergency can sink your life.
Robert Craven: And people are avoiding
treatment. The Treasurer’s office runs a medical debt forgiveness program
that’s helped forgive about $12 million worth of medical debt so far. We’re
getting some data on the demographics of the people in this program. Before we
undertook this, I expected to see many older individuals, but the average
person is in their 40s, people in the lower income brackets...
Steve Ahlquist: The 40s are when the medical issues
start to hit.
Robert Craven: Absolutely, and that’s evident by
what we’re seeing. The average debt is between $7000 and $8,000 dollars, and I
don’t think people who could afford that would let that debt linger, so I’m
left with the conclusion that these are people who can’t pay that bill. The
program affects people who are below 400% of the federal poverty line, or whose
debt is more than 5% of their income.
Steve Ahlquist: What’s your sales pitch as to why
people should vote for you?
Robert Craven: Over the past few years, I have
developed experience and relationships to help government work for people and
accomplish meaningful change at the state level. That’s what I want to bring to
North Kingstown. I developed skills and relationships that help our town move
forward. A lot of people are stuck thinking that our best days are behind us,
and as a state and as a town, we have to be reminded that better days are still
ahead. It’s hard not to get caught in that in the moment and say, “I prefer what
it used to be.” But I want to think about what can be, and there’s a lot of
positive in that.
Steve Ahlquist: As an aside, do you consider yourself
to be a progressive?
Robert Craven: I would describe myself as a
pragmatic progressive.
Steve Ahlquist: Can you explain that?
Robert Craven: I believe in many progressive
principles: that people deserve equal rights, that we should feed people, and
that we should have access to healthcare. But I also think that a step towards
progress is a positive thing, and sometimes we’re not going to see policy move
in leaps and bounds. Sometimes we’re going to be inching forward, but every
inch is a positive on the path to that end.
Steve Ahlquist: Incrementalist.
Robert Craven: Yes.
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